My guest Robert B. O'Connor is the author of the new novel Jeep Show, a trooper at the Battle of the Bulge.
His previous book was the nonfiction Gumptionaide a booster for your self improvement plan two radically different books about morale. As a young man, Robert was Phi Beta Kappa at Kenyon college, a marketing executive at Procter and Gamble, then co owner of an advertising agency.
By his account, he took a hard fall. As he was helped up off the mat, Robert came across a quote from the 19th century British biologist Thomas Huxley who said, Perhaps the most valuable result of all education is the ability to make yourself do the things you have to do when it ought to be done, whether you like it or not.
Robert wrote Gumptionaide to help himself and his readers recognize what needed to be done in their lives and how to do it. In 1967, promoter and impresario Jim Hetzer The inspiration for the protagonist in Jeep Show convinced Oxydol Detergent to sponsor a circus. The result was a marketing disaster, humorous in retrospect.
In 1944, Hetzer enlisted in the Army and was assigned to the Morale Corps as an entertainment specialist. He was attached to a Jeep Show squad in the European Theater of Operations. Jeep shows were small variety shows done for combat troops in forward areas too dangerous for the USO or the Red Cross. Hetzer often worked with Private Mickey Rooney.
Jim Hetzer's story inspired O'Connor to write Jeep Show, now a Booklife Editor's Choice Selection. Kirkus Reviews wrote, quote, It seems odd to call a World War II novel delightful, But that's exactly what you get with O'Connor's mix of history and fiction as battles rage on and enlisted men entertain the troops. O'Connor will donate 1 per copy of Jeep Show that people purchase to the nonprofit Shields and Stripes, a rehabilitation program for our military veterans and first responders. Welcome, Bob. I'm so glad to . Have you here today? Thanks, I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased to be here to talk to you and to your listeners.
I'm doing fine. Happy Monday. Happy Monday, there you go. So one thing that really impressed me, , after I read your, , book and then went on to your website, I think I counted about 30 books, articles, and videos that you used as research, and I'm just wondering, what does that say about you as a person and a writer?
Well, , one thing it says about me as a writer is, , doing too much research is a great way to procrastinate because research, if you're curious, and I am curious, research is fun and writing is hard. So there is that. And, , There's a great piece of advice for writers, which, , for fiction writers, which I did not follow, but I'll give it to you and your listeners.
It is, do not do too much research before you really figure out the plot of the book, because a lot of the things you research will never end up in the book. So, for example, I did a lot of research on turn of the century. The last century evangelists, to show background of the characters, childhood and, um, did a brilliant chapter on a famous evangelist called Billy Sunday, , the most famous man in America, probably in 1917, uh, and my editor said, you know, This is a great chapter on Billy Sunday, but it does not belong in this book, so, so yes, I, I love to read, uh, I love to read history, and, uh, so I read widely to write, uh, to write Jeep Show.
The only, uh, Good, good part, Emily, about doing too much research and writing, you know, writing 200, 000 words when you can only print 90, 000 words is, when you have to cut half your book, you go through and you can really pick the absolute best parts to save. And so that is the advantage. But, um, yeah, I provide that reading list because, um, I thought.
It would be a service to anyone who gets a little interested in learning more about World War Two. Yeah. Thank you for doing that. Sure. , and I actually, I went through that list. There were some things that I had read for myself. Like the, uh, the cartoons from World War Two. My parents had that book at home and some of the videos.
One thing I hadn't read that I actually went out and purchased because of your website was the book on, the Depression and, World War II by Kennedy. Yes. And as I started reading, I'm only like 60 or 70 pages into it. But it's already changed my perspective on Herbert Hoover. As he, I thought he was just one of those guys who bought you blah, blah, blah.
Right? Right. And here he was somebody who, who did charity during World War I, saving people's lives who actually told and convinced the, the big corporations to not lower people's wages. Right. During the early you 1929 happened. Yeah. So that he doesn't make him a big overall hero or, or anything like that, but it just.
changed my perspective on him. And I love that kind of thing. And I'm wondering, what are the ways in which some of the key things that you discovered in all the things that you used as references that kind of shifted or changed your perspective as you were thinking and writing? Well, one thing I discovered was that the U.
S. Army in World War II was the only service that Was a real cross section of the American population and my dad was in the army. So, yeah, my uncle was in the Navy, but so, but my dad was in the army and World War Two overseas, um, the Navy and the Marine Corps and to some extent the Army Air Corps. Did not rely on the draft.
They had enough volunteers that they kind of could cherry pick who was in there. The army, which was much larger than the other services combined, had to rely on the draft and thus there were, and, and, it's important, from a, research standpoint, the army represented the nation as a whole.
So the army had, um, PhDs in it. The army had soldiers that they had to teach English to, so they could understand, uh, you know, uh, the language of the country they were fighting for. The army had, soldiers from impoverished backgrounds from the, from the South or the Pacific Northwest. In fact, my father told me that, in his, uh, first group in the army, There was a boy that told him this was the first time he had his own pair of shoes, uh, that he didn't have to share with his brother.
So the Army, represented the nation as a whole, and the Army, not to slight the incredible sacrifices and work of Navy, Marines, Air Force, they're famous for it, but the Army had to do most of the on the ground slogging, fighting. in World War 2 And that was, I had not thought about, uh, I had not thought about that. Yeah.
Well, that really comes through in the way you write this book. I mean, I, , many times I just felt that I was right there with these soldiers when all the crazy things were happening. I mean, just like the protagonist here, he's supposed to be a, somebody who's entertaining the troops. The next thing you know, they shove a rifle in his hand.
So you start shooting back, right? Right. I just, that was, that was such a, um, I thought a heartfelt way, , and, and especially the way you, you focused on, What was the ordinary troopers perspective on what was happening? It was so valuable. Is it sounds like that was something that was really important to you to take that perspective.
And I'm wondering if that's true and if so, why? Well, both of my books as, as you were kind enough to mention both of my books, the nonfiction book, and then Jeep show, very different books. They're both about morale and I am profoundly interested in morale and how we do. Or don't do the hard things. Um, and we all get the opportunity in our lives to do them.
And the ordinary soldiers again, these, these represented the nation as a whole. They were mostly drafted. They weren't unpatriotic, but on the other hand, you know, they weren't jumping to the front of the line to join the Marines or the Navy or, Or the Marines or the Navy wouldn't have them for some reason.
Um, so they were mostly drafted and, the and combat artillery and, and combat engineers, the 10 percent faced great hardships and of course they faced the threat of physical injury and even death. But they also faced incredible discomfort. They lived outdoors most of the time, even in the winter.
A lot of the supplies never made it to the front line. All the ammo made it to the front line, but a lot of the other supplies never made it to the front line. They were never relieved. America only raised Raised 90 divisions, and they did not have enough infantry to pull a division out and send them back home to America, you know, after a year of fighting.
So, it, they really had a hard slog of it, and so I was very interested in how they kept at it. And part of it is, they were in the army, so they had to follow orders. But the thing that interested me the most was their, the source of their morale was not, you know, The fight for freedom, really. And it was not, uh, the ideals of America and it was really not patriotism.
The source of their morale was each other. They fought for their buddies. And, um, the only way out of the war for these combat infantry was to be wounded or killed. Uh, but what I found is the, the soldiers that were wounded, but lightly enough that they could be returned to duty, always wanted to get back to their unit.
And in a big hurry because two things. One, they wanted to be there for their buddies. And secondly, they didn't want to be a replacement in a unit they didn't know. And we all know that feeling. Yeah. Well, you, I mean, another thing you do a really excellent job of describing is when the troops encounter concentration camp.
Yeah. And the difference between the troops who've been going through all the horror they have, who are willing to actually go and see and be present with the concentration camp survivors and some of the leaders who were mostly farther back and not facing the actual fight. Who couldn't stand to actually be present with them.
Yeah. I thought that was an interesting thing to notice. And I'm curious how that came about. What, what, what helped you to write it that way? Um, well there are, many, , many, uh, reference materials related to the liberation of the concentration camps. So I was able to read and then actually watch film.
, and, the, uh, , front line soldiers were, of course, the first through the gates, , into the into the concentration camps and saw the horror, full on. And, you know, Emily, you know, Despite their combat experience, um, and, and the death and destruction that they had seen, , in, in the war, they were shocked, they were absolutely shocked, um, they, they did not suspect that, you know, man's inhumanity to man could stretch that far, , so their, uh, their leaders, but especially, , Soldiers that were rear echelon soldiers probably had a much harder time accepting it, but it was absolutely shocking to everyone.
And one of the points I make in the book is that, , one of the famous Hollywood directors, who was a colonel in the Signal Corps at that point, came into that camp, , the camp was called Ordruff, it was a satellite camp of Buchenwald, came into that camp and made a movie that was at the time called Murder Mills, , that was shown to American audiences, you know, as a newsreel before the feature to get across the point of, Hey, if you're not sure what we're fighting for, this is the ultimate answer of what we're fighting for.
This is unmitigated evil. , and this movie was also shown to German citizens. , after the war was over, , many of whom, , refused to believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, , I was interested in World War II from a very young age. I'd read about the Holocaust and, and I'd been to the Holocaust Museum, but I have to say the way you described it brought me to tears.
So thank you. You're very, uh, you're very gracious. I, you know, again, the strength of, of the book, Is , I took the perspective of the soldier on the ground. So, , you know, when we get to the liberation of Ordriff, this concentration camp, you've got, , the main character, Private Jim Hetzer, talking with a photographer from the Signal Corps, also a private, about, you know, what, what it's going to be like to try to film Such utter, such an utter abomination.
And the, um, the director, , who's an experienced Hollywood director, , makes the point of, we want to make sure we focus on the faces of the, some of the dead prisoners. So it doesn't look just like a pile of corpses, but it looks like individual people who have been mistreated and murdered. , So trying to get into it from the point of view of the people on the ground doing the job.
Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah. So, um, another thing that really struck me about the, uh, the book is the way you, um, dealt with, felt to me like carefully dealt with the challenges of presenting the world from a culturally appropriate reality of what it was like in the 1940s. , the way people would talk and so forth.
It felt to me a little bit like you were inspired by the way Mark Twain did Huckleberry Finn. You know, here's the utter nasty racist terms that he used. But here's this human being trying to work through it. And you present people who are aware of that and try to do the right thing. People who couldn't care less.
Right. And, you know, it's just, it was really moving to me. And I, I wonder what, what is it that helped you to go through that? It seems like a big challenge to do that well. Uh, well, first of all, you've really put on an important point when you mentioned, you know, Huck Finn, Mark Twain's Huck Finn, which is certainly one of the top two or three American novels ever written.
Yeah, I read, I actually read, uh, I put three books in rotation while I was writing this one, and I literally read each of them about four times. Huck Finn was one of them, and, , you know, so I was inspired to pay careful attention to the way people talked then. And, uh, I have always felt that the American Civil Rights Movement is one of the most important world events of the 20th century, so I have a huge, although I'm not an expert on it, Um, I have a huge amount of respect for it, and, , as you know, Emily, in World War II, the, black soldiers were drafted, just like anyone else, but they were put in, the army was segregated, and they were put in, their own units with white officers.
It was usually logistics. , I do talk about a black artillery battery that fought in Bastogne, and that is based on actual fact, but I tried to show in story form what it was like for a black soldier in World War Two. So one of the characters, , while Mickey Rooney and the main character are eating in a dining room with a, with a combat officer, the black driver is eating in the kitchen, , because he, even though, uh, Mickey Rooney was not racist, the black driver said , it'll be easier on everybody if I just eat in the kitchen.
And by the way, I'm getting the same meal that you do, Mickey. So I'm okay with it. . And another thing I've tried to, you know, people are so complicated, Emily, and so there's a scene that's a little jarring where a white racist soldier objects greatly to the presence of two black soldiers in, in the mess hall where he's eating and that really happened.
But also, this white soldier, , was covered with burn ointment. He had received a bad burn in combat. So even though, you know, He's a great racist. On the other hand, he's a complete human being, and he is a wounded soldier. Uh, so I tried to, you know, you have to try to remember that people are complicated.
, but I did try to pick up the way people talked. talked back then. Yeah, and the same people who did things like the white soldier were also some of the people who participated in the civil rights movement along with black people. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, that's one thing I've tried to do with myself. I remember my dad one time telling me a story about, When he was a young adult, he ended up in New York City and he got on the wrong train and ended up in the middle of Harlem and how scared he felt in the moment.
And one of my cousins said, wait a minute, you know, that that's no, no, that can't be because after all the, the, , The doula who brought them all into the, uh, birth into the world was a black woman. Right. Right. I said, yes, both things are true. Exactly. That was in Southern Missouri. And his dad was, was very, uh, really a good, a good man.
Yeah. But here he ends up at a place he doesn't expect. And he just had a reaction. It was just a human reaction. So I, I, I so appreciated the complicated way you, you brought that out because that does represent all of us. Yeah. I really believe that. One of the, , amazing and difficult things about us human beings is we're able to hold two conflicting ideas at the same time.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, , You've been on, , more than one, this is not your first podcast, you were on the What's the Scuttlebutt? with its deep focus on history and love of World War II and history, and then Veterans Radio Podcast, which is dedicated to serving those who served in our armed forces. So now you're here on the Sacred Gyre podcast for World War II Baby Substack.
I think it says a lot about the quality and depth of your book, Jeep Show, that it's attracting all these different perspectives, and I wonder how that lands with you, and what helps you to create that. Well, first of all, it lands well, and, , You know, so after we have, , after I had those interviews, I then have to go and take out the garbage or clean the toilets or something to get my ego, you know, back in, back in the box so that I can get my head through the door.
Uh, the book I can say about Jeep Show, the same thing I could say about Gumshay, which is it is the best I could do. It could, they could be better, but, but I am satisfied that it is the best I can do. Jeep Show is interesting because, as I admitted to you, I did too much research, but that resulted in a book that can be of interest to World War II nerds, uh, if that's a polite way to say it, or World War II, you know, historians, aficionados, trivia experts, uh, And also to people, even younger people, who don't know much about World War II and may be a little intimidated by the nonfiction, uh, the excellent nonfiction books available because, , I'm telling a story, you know, it's a fictional story that, that can be followed about one man's experience, but , there's no place in the story where I departed from actual facts.
You know, I, I made things up right and left, but they are historically accurate, things. So, there are many, many what, you know, what we call Easter eggs in the book for World War II buffs. You know, there is, I'll give you an example. , the M1 rifle, which was the standard rifle, given to infantry in World War II, Loaded with a clip.
It was an automatic rifle, and you would pop a clip of, I think, six bullets in, in six rounds, as they'd say, into the rifle. As soon as you did that, the bolt would snap shut with great force. And you had to learn to load that clip without leaving your thumb in the path of the bolt, or else you would get a very painful, , shock.
And it was called M1 Thumb. And you could tell somebody something because their thumbnail would have a bruise. It would be purple from it. And, , so one of the things that they really appreciated on on the Scuttlebutt podcast was the main character gets M one thumb. But I don't make a big, I just flip it in there.
I don't, I don't, you know, I'd say, I say he, you know, he looks down at his bruised thumb and sighs. You know, so, so there's lots of, , there's lots of little details for World War II, nerds, I guess I'd say without, , you know, putting them down. But, , and then there is a coherent story for people who may not be, you know, as into the details.
Yeah. And there's a, I think, a value to having something like that, you know, that thumb injury, which was so common for the soldiers that didn't make a big deal out of it, but for someone who wasn't there. Oh, wow. Not only to, to, to understand that that happened to them, but to get. Oh, they didn't make that big a deal out of it.
So it's, it's a way I think of bringing the culture forward to you that you wouldn't get otherwise. You know, Emily, another detail that again, kind of brings it alive for those of us that haven't gone through it, but keeping your feet dry was a huge and critical challenge, in, in the Battle of the Bulge and of course in the Pacific for those soldiers, but keeping your feet dry.
And, you know, , so, , because if you didn't, , your feet would become injured. You could get something called trench foot and literally not be able to walk and maybe even lose, a few toes. So, you know, one of the details is soldiers would carry a pair of dry socks in their helmet. under, you know, between their head and their helmet, because the challenge of keeping your feet dry was a not quite life or death, but a very, very important detail, which, you know, until you know about it, you don't even think.
So I know from my own experiences in writing a book that there's a lot of pressure to be successful. From a variety, what does that even mean from different points of view? And in my own life that I realized that it could actually take me away from my basic purpose of what am I about in doing this writing?
Um, to use a current term, you know, going for clickbait. Yes. Yeah. Uh, which I try hard not to do. And I'm wondering what is it from your life, from your upbringing, how you organize yourself, things you've learned that help you to notice that those pressures and, and to deal with them in the moment? Uh, good and, and tough question.
I'll, I'll refer first to a quote. That I came across that, , during my, , you know, my time flat on my back, , that really helped me. And, and it is, , to try to understand the difference between excellence and success, to some extent, success is out of your control. It is based on the opinions of others.
There can be luck involved, there can be timing involved. , you really can't control success. You can control excellence. So, if you set out to have an excellent podcast, or you set out to have an excellent garden, or to write an excellent book, well, there's some fundamental things well within your control.
How hard you work, , you know, do you do good research? , do you follow through? Do you persevere when it gets, , when you really don't want to do it anymore? So, , it really helped me to be focusing on excellence rather than success. You know, a very poignant and Meaningful detail about that. The quote is, , when I read it, it came from a football coach named Lou Paterno, who was a legendary coach at Penn State, , and he fell afoul of his own words.
He ended up, , his program, , there was a, , one of his, , main, , , assistant coaches who was a pedophile and had harmed, , boys, some boys and, , because of the desire not to disrupt the football team and the winning ways and the alumni contributions, Lou Paterno did not take action against this man.
And thus, in the end, Lou Paterno lost his job, lost his dignity and, you know, pretty much died of sorrow as a result. And yet this is the man that said that brilliant quote, which is focus on excellence, not success. Isn't that the human story? My goodness, isn't it? Yeah. And the way I put it doing the right thing is more important than winning. Absolutely. You may or may not win. Like you said, there's a lot of that that you have no control over. What you do have control over is Right. Who am I and what am I about? Right. Uh, really, thank you so much. Um, you, one thing I, I, , noticed is, , you said that Robert Core's book, A Path to Power Biography of Lyndon Johnson read like a poetry to you in, in your youth.
And I wonder if you'd be willing to say more about it. I mean, here's a biography, reading like poetry. How did that, how did that happen? ? Well, part of it is Robert Caro the, uh, who, who wrote. So has is writing several volumes of Lyndon Johnson's biography is I think he's a genius. , but he is a brilliant writer and he was specifically writing about Johnson's childhood in the Texas Hill country.
And he painted and, and John Lyndon Johnson's parents, , his father was a very honest, , lower level politician. very high standards of, of excellence. And Caro just painted this picture that absolutely entranced me. And I just had to, I just had to pass that on in my, in my list of books. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that was really, really sweet.
I really enjoyed that. So, one of the things that I, after I read your, your book, you know, Jeep show, I noticed that, Oh, Gumptionaide that's interesting. Actually started reading that I'm about the way through it. And, one thing that struck me, and this, well let me back up a little bit, I've had the experience, especially my first book of poetry, Butterfly Arose, which is basically a memoir in poetry form, right?
And I was reading my poems from that book somewhere, and afterwards somebody who was not at all transgender came up to me, And said how the poetry in the book had touched her life, her personal life. And I thought, but you're not transgender, right? And later as I thought about it, and I had a couple of other reactions from people like that, I realized, no matter what you think, other people are going to read your book from their life experience.
And you can't, you can't control that. So I'm going to raise a little bit of a thing about Gumptionaide that's my, my reaction to it that you have no control over it. And there's some stuff that I heard you saying in Gumptionaide that I had my own reaction to from my own perspective. And I'd like to just say a couple of them.
So you, uh, you say put excellence before success. It takes courage to admit a mistake. And my approach is doing the right thing is more important than winning. Then you say, um, your happiness depends largely on what you choose to do or not do with the cards life deals you. Gumption is the power to play your hand well, to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
And that raised for me the memory, I'm a big fan of Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning. Yes, yes. Yes, who he says, um, and this is me paraphrasing it. Your mission in life is created as you react to the challenges and opportunities life presents you with. And personally, I would add that how you respond is partly a function of your underlying values.
And I wonder how hearing me say that's my reaction, how does that land with you? Um, first of all, you make a great point and, and it's something for authors to remember that, everyone will take different things from. A book because everyone brings their own life experience to it. What, when I was writing Gumptionaide, as I said, I was kind of scratching my head and trying to figure out the mistakes I'd made and how I had landed myself in, in that particular briar patch.
Um, and you know, I had to get back to just some very basics about how to be a. a better person. And I don't mean that as a value judgment, but how to be a, you know, a happier or more productive person. And I kind of got down to some, some very basic by, by writing my thoughts down. Um, I got down to some very basic understandings, which I've carried forward.
And by the way, , I started out my business career at Procter and Gamble, the soap company in Cincinnati. And They had a saying, which has held true, which is unless you've written it down, you haven't thought it through. So when you wrote your poems, you were thinking through your experience in a very, uh, in a very important way.
When I wrote, uh, Gumptionaide, I was thinking through my experiences and what I thought I had learned from it, but you know, I learned some, some, some simple points and. One is, you know, if somebody said, well, you know, what lessons would you tell, a young person or a person asking, you know, you know, what would I learn from Gumptionaide?
I'd say, you know, the first thing I would tell anybody, and I had to learn this myself, is to be dependable, to, to do what you say you will do. And part, part of, and the reason I say that is trust is the basis of productive relationships and productive relationships are the basis of a happy life. And where there is no trust, you can't have a productive relationship and you build trust by being productive.
Dependable. And you, you are dependable by doing what you say you will do. And part of the key to that is don't say you will. You know, you can always, uh, if somebody asks you to do something, can always say, let me think about this . You know, don't be, don't be too quick to say you'll do something next week because next week will come and you won't want to.
And, and you will, but, but now, , you know, I, I take a point in thinking, oh, I, I said I'd go visit so and so in the hospital and I really don't want to, um, you know, there's a game on or I'm tired or I need to write, and I'm like, no, okay, here's the opportunity to do what I said I would do. So, so that's, that's one fundamental I took away from it.
And then something, , the Jeep show added to that is, you know, be present for people. One of the things that these Jeep show is about an enlisted entertainer in World War II and how they did, uh, shows for combat soldiers in places that the USO could not go. And the value to the soldiers wasn't really the show.
Um, You know, it was pretty good, but, but, uh, the value to the soldiers was that these entertainers were present with them right near the front that they had taken the time and the trouble and put up with the danger of coming and being present with them. And, you know, I. Take away from that the importance to people of just being present.
So if you, know someone that's going through a really tough time, as we all do, um, just try to be present for them. You don't, you can't solve their problems. You know, don't ask them how they're doing. But just be present. Just be there and listen and just be present. And that was something that I came away with from my experiences and from writing, uh, writing both those books.
And then the last thing is, uh, to paraphrase Carl Jung, um, suffer better. You know, your bad habit is always a substitute for creative suffering. We are going to suffer in this life, Emily, and And the key is, as much as possible, let us, let us direct our suffering to be creative and to make us better, , rather than, , suffering with, , avoidance, alcoholism, bad habits, whatever.
Um, yeah. So, that was my experience in, I may have gotten away from your good question, by the way. No, no, actually. That was my experience. You're really, you're really addressing it in a lovely way. I know my, I, , developed from you know, butterfly arose, which has actually a lot of raw stuff in it. Yeah.
Um, 'cause I was writing from that painful perspective Yeah. To, um, my memoir, which I wrote in 2012, which is what has some of that, those, uh, experiences in there. Yes. But they're much more about how did I learn and grow through them? And I'm wondering if there was, is there anything between doing Gumptionaide.
And, and writing a Jeep show that were changed in some ways that the going from the one to the other made a difference in it and changing you in some way or something. Certainly, as, as with, you know, as you know from writing your memoir, writing it down makes it a lot more present for you, even though you lived through it, to write it down is to live through it again in another more focused, more reflective way.
So, you know, kudos on that. I think what happened after I wrote Gumptionaide, the nonfiction book is coming out of that. I said, um. Okay. I'm a writer now. And, and, you know, , this seems to be the most productive way for me to spend my time. , so I'm a writer. What, what am I going to write next? And, and thus, I, you know, wound my way to, , a Jeep show.
Um, I'll, I'll tell you how I arrived at that topic. Um, and it may be of interest to your readers, but as I said, I started out my career at the. soap company, Procter Gamble. And like any company that's been around a long time, there were legends and stories told. And one of the legends told at Procter Gamble is about the Oxydol Circus.
And the Oxydol Circus was, was a, a circus promoter by the name of Jim Hetzer convinced the Oxydol brand manager to sponsor A traveling circus and, , it turned out to be, and I think I mentioned this, you know, disaster, but humorous in retrospect. Well, , I was going to write about that as a nonfiction thing to share with my, , fellow Procter and Gamble alumni and I located the daughter Of this circus promoter and I called her and, , asked her, you know, about her father.
And she said, well, one of the things that most people don't know about is he was an enlisted entertainer in World War Two, and he worked with Mickey Rooney and they did these things called Jeep shows. And I was flabbergasted and, and because I didn't know that, that there were enlisted entertainers and that they did shows at the frontline for combat soldiers.
And she said, and by the way, Bob, my aunt, his older sister saved every letter. That he wrote home from the war and I was like, Oh, primary sources, primary sources. And, I said, would you mind if I came down to Dallas and, you know, looked at those letters, I'll put on white cotton gloves and I'll be very careful.
And she said, Oh, don't worry. My, my sister published them in a book. You can, you can buy. So I bought the book of these, Several hundred letters, and, , it was so fascinating to hear the details of this real man's life, , that I knew I wanted to write about these soldiers in World War II, but I also knew I wanted to get him involved in the Battle of the Bulge, which is the largest battle ever fought by the United States Army, and of course, a turning point in World War II.
And so, . And, I decided that I wanted to write fiction. So Emily, I had to then go out and buy a book called How to Write a Novel and, and try to try to figure it out. . Well, that's, oh gosh, that's such a, a delightful story. I really loved it. I, and I. And I want to just say again how much I enjoyed reading your book, Jeep Show, and how much I appreciate the fact that it's out there for people to purchase and enjoy.
And I guess I have one more thing I'd like to end in with is from your point of view, is there anything we haven't talked about that you think could be meaningful for my listeners? Thank you. Well, first of all, it's been a really meaningful conversation for me. So thank you for that. Um, such a useful angle to take on it.
, I guess the only thing I would add is, , I came away from the book with a. Deeper respect for our World War II veterans and for all veterans, you know, like most Americans in general, I have a default respect for veterans and and their service, but having done the research and seeing what it was like for the combat soldiers and what it was like for the airmen.
In World War Two, and then what it was like for the other soldiers who didn't face combat, but gave up three or four years of their young lives to to serve, um, I came away with a deeper respect for both the veterans in World War Two and and all our veterans. And in fact, um, I located a nonprofit .
called Shield and Stripes that serves veterans who need mental health, you know, who need counseling related to mental health. And I got in touch, found them, really like their mission, and I'm giving a dollar per copy sold. To, , to that group. So I guess the thing I would leave the, the listeners with is how much we owe our veterans and, um, how much, , you know, how much they mean to us as a nation.
Yeah, I, I know, , I was, , an opponent of the Vietnam war in my youth, but, um, one thing that really struck me was how many of the soldiers coming back from that war. We're suffering things that weren't just about physical damage to their bodies and how little help they got Right, it was just like buck up and get on with it, right?
And I yeah that bothered me tremendously so Things have improved. I'm really happy that they are so glad that there's an organization like that I would just I hope that My listeners will not only buy your book, but you know Just be happy that a dollar is going to go toward that excellent and great cause and How much more needs to be done?
Yes, you know absolutely Take really care for them so they can come back to a full life and and really get past The other types of injuries that we're still trying to understand, right? Absolutely good lives. So thank you so much for this conversation. , once again, what's the, , address of your, , website?
The website is jeepshowbook. com jeepshowbook. com dot com jeepshowbook. com Please go there. The book is available on Amazon like so many books are. Thank you so much, Bob. Um, real pleasure to have you and I hope you have a great rest of your life. Let's keep in contact. Yeah, let's keep in touch. And Emily, 📍 it's been a real privilege to be on your show.
I appreciate it. Challenging, very challenging subjects, but a real privilege. Thank you so much for that. All right. Bye. Bye now. Bye
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